Gas Dwarfs
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  karl.garnham1

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Posted: 2013-April-05 at 7:43am | IP Logged Quote karl.garnham1

Hi Everyone on Solar Voyager

This will sound weird but I think it is a justified weird. I think Uranus and Neptune should be classed as Gas Dwarfs rather than Gas giants and ice giants. Here are my reasons

1. There are Rocky Planets Bigger and heavier Then Uranus and Neptune that have been discovered. as there are also Gas Giants been found that dwarf Jupiter.
2. Pluto got turned into a Minor Planet because apparently its orbit was not the same as a normal planet(Although so what really we all know its because its smaller than Earths moon and the Minor Planet still has Planet in the name.
3.They can't be called ice Giants as they are mainly made up of Hydrogen and Helium Gases there is no icy surface to speak of and yes they are cold but that does not mean they are icy.

And thats All I have to go on not too compelling evidence but I thought I would share it and get it out of my system.

Cheers

Karl


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  nkalanaga

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Posted: 2013-April-06 at 1:33am | IP Logged Quote nkalanaga

Actually, a good portion of Uranus and Neptune's masses are ice.  I very strange, high temperature and pressure variety, but still impure solid H2O.  They're commonly called "ice giants" in some circles.

From http://www.solstation.com/stars/uranus.htm

"While Uranus is called a gas giant, the planet's hydrogen envelope is far less massive than Jupiter and Saturn. Now also called a ice giant, Uranus is composed primarily of rock and various ices, with only about 15 percent hydrogen and a little helium overall, while Jupiter and Saturn are mostly hydrogen in gas and liquid metallic form. According to astronomer Richard Crowe, the planet may have a rock-ice core of about 1.2 times Earth's diameter -- 30 to 40 percent of Uranus' diameter -- and around 10 times Earth's mass -- 60 to 70 percent of Uranus' total mass ("Ask Astro", Astronomy, October 2004). However, Uranus does have a magnetic field that is tilted almost 60 degrees with respect to the axis of rotation and off center with respect to the planet (see schematic diagram comparing the axial tilts of Uranus and Earth). The field may be generated by internal movements at shallow depths compared to the other gas giants, but the original hypothesis of a layer of electrically conductive, ocean of water and ammonia lying under pressure between the heavy atmosphere and the core may have been disproven by recent findings." 

I don't know what the definition is, but I have seen a "gas dwarf" described as a world similar in mass to a terrestrial planet, which could be up to ten Earth masses or so, but with a significant fraction of its mass in gas.  Since most theories say that it takes at least ten EM to form the core of a Jovian, I have no idea how a smaller world would have that much gas, unless it was very cold.  One might be possible by melting a water/ammonia ice world, if the total mass was high enough to hold the oxygen and nitrogen after the hydrogen was lost to space.

But you're right, Uranus and Neptune are as different from Jupiter and Saturn as they are from the terrestrial planets.

N Kalanaga
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  karl.garnham1

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Posted: 2013-April-06 at 2:41pm | IP Logged Quote karl.garnham1

Thanks nkalanaga

Thanks for the info. Man you are good I mean it I read up on space lot and I know a fair bit but nowhere near as much as you do you are one of the most knowledgeable people I know. I have been thinking a lot about space as lately possibly because my chicken named after Saturn's Moon Phoebe died poor old girl was drooling and I couldn't save her She had to be put down at the vet in fact this may interest you she died the exact day the Satellite before her was discovered. I am thinking of getting a egg and putting it under my small chicken to incubate do you think any of these names are of any good. Callisto, Miranda or Charon. (She has to be named after a celestial object and I think yelling Pulsar or Black Hole down the garden would seem weird.)

Cheers

Karl


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  nkalanaga

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Posted: 2013-April-08 at 12:11am | IP Logged Quote nkalanaga

I'm sorry.  I haven't had much contact with chickens as pets, but the few people I know who have said they make good ones, other than trying to housebreak them.  One lady in the town I grew up in had a hen that sat on her front porch railing for several years.  I'd see it walking to and from school.

Well, for a chicken, almost any name will work, and if you're hatching one, there's no way to know its gender until it hatches.  You might need a male name!

From Wikipedia:
"In Greek mythology, Callisto or Kallisto (Greek: Καλλιστώ [kallisˈtɔː]) was a nymph of Artemis. Transformed into a bear and set among the stars, she was the bear-mother of the Arcadians, through her son Arcas." 

So, Callisto has space connections beyond Jupiter's moon, which may be a factor in your choice.

"
Miranda (mə-RAN-də is one of the principal characters of William Shakespeare’s The Tempest. She is the only female character to appear on stage during the course of the play and is one of only three women mentioned.

Miranda is the daughter of Prospero, one of the main characters of William Shakespeare’s The Tempest. She was banished to the Island along with her father at the age of three, and in the subsequent twelve years has lived with her father and their slave, Caliban, as her only company. She is openly compassionate and unaware of the evils of the world that surrounds her, learning of her father's fate only as the play begins."

No real space, or mythology, there, but "Miranda" is a nice-sounding name.  And, if your chicken decides to roost in high places, you might think of "Midnight Wind" by John Stewart, with its line "Come on down Miranda"

Charon is a little gloomy for a chicken, in my opinion, since they tend to be daytime animals.  On the other hand, Pluto's moon is actually named for the wife of one of its discoverers.
"Charon was originally known by the temporary designation S/1978 P 1, according to the then recently instituted convention. On June 24, 1978, Christy first suggested the name Charon as a scientific-sounding version of his wife Charlene's nickname, "Char."[17]
Charon discovery image with description

Although colleagues at the Naval Observatory proposed Persephone, Christy stuck with Charon after discovering it coincidentally refers to a Greek mythological figure:[17] Charon is the ferryman of the dead, closely associated in myth with the god Hades, whom the Romans identified with their god Pluto. Official adoption of the name by the IAU waited until late 1985 and was announced on January 3, 1986.[18]"

So, it's one of the few major bodies in the Solar System not actually named from mythology, aside from Uranus' moons, which are all named for Shakespeare's characters, making them at least fictional.  Incidentally, the Greek Charon is pronounced "Karon", as in the American pronunciation of the female name "Karen", so you have two choices there.


For what it's worth, I'm really not that "knowledgeable" about space.  I do have a lot of trivia stuffed into my head, but mostly I'm good at remembering where to FIND information, and have a lot of sites bookmarked.  Even before the Internet, I preferred to remember where to look stuff up rather than try to memorize everything.  And the web, at least to me, is simply the world's biggest library.  I went to good schools, the public schools in Pasco, Washington, in the 60s and early 70s, and many of the teachers I had concentrated on teaching HOW to learn, and how to find information, rather than just "teaching the book".  My sister and I were both fortunate there, and our parents also encouraged us to "look it up" from the time we could read.

I hope your "small chicken" isn't taking it too hard.  They are social animals, and the loss of a companion can be rough on them.

N Kalanaga




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  karl.garnham1

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Posted: 2013-April-08 at 1:12pm | IP Logged Quote karl.garnham1

Thanks nkalanaga

They are a bit different since she died but I think they will be ok. I think I will be going for a female egg as the males are noisy Poor old Phoebe people kept asking if I name her after the character in friends and I said hell no She is named after Saturns Moon. I probably will wait till it hatches and see what name suits her. Phoebe had a lot wrong with her she couldn't digest her food and was drooling so I took her to the vet and asked they take care of her. I am actually making a space art Book for Kindle that I am dedicating to her it will have new space craft one is Phoebe mk2 and another is RMS Hannibal. And I will also be making Rockets like the Saturn V and N1 as I still think the N1 was a fantastic Design and could have worked if Sergei Korolev didn't die. Thanks for the info and concern for my girls.

Cheers

Karl


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